The Forgiveness Step That Breaks Codependency

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Forgiveness is one of the hardest parts of healing — but what if forgiveness doesn't mean pretending it was okay, rebuilding trust immediately, or returning to an unhealthy relationship?

In this episode of the Intentional Breakthrough Podcast, Charity Gurtler and Tania Hilton continue their conversation on forgiveness and walk through what forgiveness is — and what it is not. They unpack the difference between forgiveness, reconciliation, and trust; how healthy boundaries fit into biblical forgiveness; and why true forgiveness begins at the heart level, not just in the mind.

They also explore codependency, family wounds, "they did the best they could" as a defense mechanism, forgiving the impact instead of judging someone's intentions, and how to ask God what still needs healing — plus how forgiveness clears the way for breaking agreement with lies and walking in spiritual authority over strongholds.

If you've ever struggled to forgive someone who hurt you, wondered whether forgiveness means letting them back in, or felt stuck in a cycle of pain, this episode will help you take the next gentle step with the Lord.

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Intentional breakthrough is possible when we align ourselves with God’s love and truth. You don’t have to sit and wait for your breakthrough to happen. Healing and restoration are attainable. Begin your journey today.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And so the true forgiveness is actually what causes you to be able to walk free from the codependency in a place of safety, where then you're able to actually begin to set healthy boundaries. The Lord shows you how to do that and walks you through that. When you're in codependence, a lot of times when people talk about, well, how do I know they're not gonna hurt me again? Like I'm afraid they're gonna hurt me again if I forgive them. It's like, no, actually, when you truly forgive, that's when you're the safest. Because you're actually stepping back from that enmeshment and that dysfunction. Welcome to the Intentional Breakthrough Podcast. I am Charity Gertler with my co-host Tanya Hilton, and we're gonna jump right back in where we left off last time, talking about everyone's favorite topic, forgiveness.

unknown 0:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

It's so hard.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I know it is really the hardest one, but it's the beginning, and there's so much fruit to it. So sometimes, like Charity, you have such a spiritual discipline and that muscle is so strong. So it's like we go to the gym together and you're lifting 350 pounds, and I'm like, bro, I'm still in like five pounds here, and you're like, forgiveness. Oh, just forgive them, forgive them. And it's forgiveness is not easy. So, so let me just it is a muscle. And I I think I see it that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I see it like a muscle. Because when I started, I couldn't even lift a five-pound weight. It was just yeah, so hard, but I stuck it up. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

As like a counselor, this is what I tell people what forgiveness is and what forgiveness isn't. So let's just be very clear right off the bat. Um, yeah, that's good. Forgiveness is not saying what and I think we touched on this a little bit. Forgiveness is not saying what you did to me was okay. Uh, my son, sometimes I'll I'll apologize for something and he'll be like, it's okay. And I'm like, no, it's not okay. Like, don't, I don't want you saying it's okay because I don't, when people ask for forgiveness, I don't want you saying, well, what you did is okay. I want you to say thank you, like thank you for apologizing and and I forgive you. Or, or, and I need time. Okay. So, of course, we move him towards forgiveness, but if he needs time, he needs time. So, forgiveness is not saying what you did to me is okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Forgiveness is almost like when someone says it's okay, they're really not dealing with it. They're just sort of like shoving it down, like putting under the rug.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

For me, sometimes too, if somebody apologizes to me, sometimes it feels uncomfortable a little bit too. So, so there could be a little, I don't know, like shame that comes with saying, Oh, it's okay. Like my feelings don't deserve to have an apology, right? So there can be some shame in that. So forgiveness is not saying what you did is okay. Forgiveness is not saying our relationship is back to where it was. Reconciliation and forgiveness are two different things. So you can forgive somebody, right? And and I'll give a real life example as I am walking through a season right now with my own parents that um they have chosen not to speak to me right now. That's I almost said that's okay. That's not okay. That's that is um it's a choice that I am not taking personally. That's whatever they're walking through. I I have to give them that space. I have forgiven them for some of the things that have happened in our past together and our relationships together. Reconciliation is very far off the table right now for both of us, I believe. So reconciliation and forgiveness is not the same. Also, okay, one last thing, and then I'll I'll let you jump in because I know you got a lot on this. Forgiveness is not a feeling. There's a lot of things that I had to forgive that I did not want to. Okay. And all forgiveness is saying I take my foot off their neck and I lay them at the foot of the cross and I leave them to Jesus. That's all forgiveness isn't for me. But I'd love for you to jump in because I know you're super passionate. You've got that 350-pound weight.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

I don't know about that, but I just wanted to ask too. You said forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation. That is so important. It's also not the same as trust because you forgive someone doesn't mean you trust them again. Usually it means you don't quite, potentially. It depends what happened, you know. But um, yeah, it's not the same as trust. Forgiveness, I will often define it as a release from judgment. I release that person from any judgment I hold against them. I let it go. I release it, I lay it down. And it is hard to do. It's easy to say, it's hard to do because true forgiveness, where you're actually going to see an impact in your life, comes from the heart level. And you start, you make the start when with your with your words, with the intention of your heart, with uh your heart posture. We talked about that, the heart posture of having a willing heart, a softer heart, not hardening your heart to the Lord. And you say, I don't know if I can even forgive, but I'm willing to try.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

And that's um that's the that's the first step. And then you continue to do that every day.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

There is a thing such as healthy boundaries. And I know sometimes that word boundaries right now is being like weaponized. Like, well, my boundary says boundaries shouldn't be punishment. You shouldn't be punishing people with boundaries, but boundaries can look like um, I don't allow people to speak to me the way that you're speaking to me. So right now I'm gonna end the conversation. But when you're ready to talk again, when you've calmed down, we can talk again. Like that would be a healthy boundary. And so if somebody has hurt you or harmed you in your relationship, parents, siblings, laws, friends, workers, peers, you can forgive them and have healthy boundaries and not have reconciliation in the relationship or have reconciliation with healthy boundaries. So it's really important to know, like you said, I love the way you just said, and this is just saying, I am releasing judgment from this person. I'm putting it at the foot of the cross. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, yeah. And the Lord says, vengeance is his. Like, so you're saying, I I let it go, I lay it down, I forgive them. I forgive them. I let it go, I lay it down, release all judgment against that person and trust the Lord. And it is very tricky with difficult with enmeshed relationships, like codependent relationships, to be like, Well, how do I deal with this? They're calling me every single day, you know, how do I set healthy boundaries? It blows up and it affects the whole family. And it's the more that you heal, the more that you truly go to those deeper layers with the Lord and healing and forgiveness and letting him speak the truth and finding those healings, the more you'll have be able to walk that out. The easier you'll be able to walk it out. I remember really um struggled with a lot of codependency. I grew up with a lot of those dysfunctions when I was younger and didn't even really know what a relationship was like, not codependent. And I would always um think I would forgive, but my forgiveness was really saying, Oh, I'm willing to jump back into the codependency. That's not forgiveness at all. When I the Lord started showing me truly forgive, when I truly, and I realized when I truly, truly forgive, I was actually able for the first time to break free from the codependency and not live enmeshed and live in a safe in that place with the Lord. And then that's when I was actually safe. When I jumped back into those codependent relationships, I would the cycle would continue. It would be a cycle, and I would I would get hurt again, and they'd get hurt again, there'd be an argument again, and the cycle would continue. And it wasn't until and I realized that I wasn't actually ever truly forgiving when I did that. I was actually just shoving it down and jumping back into the codependency. And so the true forgiveness is actually what causes you to be able to walk free from the codependency in a place of safety, where then you're able to actually begin to set healthy boundaries. And the Lord shows you how to do that and walks you through that. When you're in codependence, a lot of times when people talk about, well, how do I know they're not gonna hurt me again? Like I'm afraid they're gonna hurt me again if I forgive them. It's like, no, actually, when you truly forgive, that's when you're the safest because you're actually stepping back from that enmeshment and that dysfunction. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

I I I would love to walk people through because we talk about it. What is what is it actually you have language that you partner with with when you walk through forgiveness? And there is something else I want to add to you at the end, but I want to hear you first is if I'm coming to you and I'm struggling to forgive a family member, a partner, a spouse or whatever, how do you walk me through that forgiveness? So the people listening can Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I I usually ask, like, are you willing to be willing? Are you willing to forgive? And so what would your answer be? Are you just wanting to forgive, but you just can't? Or you're just like, I don't even know if I'm willing.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

So my heart, when I think about my own like personal relationship with with my parents, what my heart says is I want to be free of this burden that's on my heart. When if you know, like, so I'm I'm trying to like put myself in this in the shoes. I want to be free of this, this, not just this hurt, but like this, there's a burden on me that feels like it doesn't belong to me. This burden belongs to Jesus because he says his yoke is light for us. And so that would be my answer is like, yes, I want to be free of this burden. And I know that forgiveness, I know because we've we've gone to the gym a few times. I know that forgiveness is a step. So, yes, let's say I want to be free of the burden. That would be the answer that I'm giving you if I was coming to you for like a guided prayer session.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah. And let's just go to the Lord and say, God, what exactly do I need to forgive them for? What is the hurt that I'm still carrying? And I like to bring people to that place. That one, that's how he did it with me, where I just asked him, God, who do I need to forgive? But in that moment of letting him lead, I think is a moment of letting go of control.

unknown 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

You're letting go of figuring it out and doing it on your own. You're saying, God, I'm willing to let you lead. I'll go where you lead me. And when people are in that place, it's pretty amazing that the Lord's like, okay, forgive this person for this. And then as you follow his lead, it begins to get in at heart layers, not just in your head. So I think when we're in control, we stay in our head, but when we let go, we allow the Lord to take us to our heart. And that's when we start seeing a lot of the difference happen. And so I would just say, go before the Lord. I mean, do you want to do it right now?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Well, so I I love this because I'm thinking, and like, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna throw you a wrench. Uh and yes, so if I was answering you in that situation, hurt with my family, this is this is the way I would respond. And I'm gonna throw a little wrench in there too, because I hear this all the time, and I know you do too. Um, so you said, what is the hurt? Like, go before the Lord and ask the Lord, what's the hurt? So the hurt I would answer, uh, or I would say something like, Well, I want to forgive my parents for not loving me as a child as I should have been loved, but I know that they did the very best they could, and I know that they didn't mean to, and I know that their family, and I know, and I know, but you know, yeah, that is your mind taking over.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Your mind has gotten you through that situation on a basis of survival and said, okay, I understand with my mind. They did the best they could, they tried their best, and that is all honestly a little bit of a smokescreen, a little bit of a defense over your heart because one that's probably the way you were taught to handle it. It was passed down. This um, oh, there's this idea of honoring our parents that we can't ever really look at anything they did as wrong. That's not honoring your parents. When I walked through forgiveness and healing just between me and the Lord with my parents, I was able to step into a place of honoring them much better than I ever could have before. And so it was through a place of healing that I felt like, oh, I'm truly honoring them. I'm no longer getting triggered and this and that. Like I'm just, I can actually love them and honor them well because I found that healing. And so I would just invite people to you know what, lay those things down. This is just between you and the Lord. You don't need to bring this up. I actually encourage people when you're walking through forgiveness, don't bring it up to that person. This is between you and the Lord. One out of a thousand times, maybe the Lord leads you to talk to somebody, but this is all between you and him. You do not need to talk to someone about forgiveness or what you holding against them. You can go, you and the Lord, and release it. And this is about healing for you. And as you heal, as you forgive and he begins to heal those places of your heart, you'll be able to approach that relationship so much better with more love. So I just encourage people like, let's just, let's just lay that aside. It's a little bit of a defense mechanism. Let's lay that aside and just say, okay, God, is there any places in my heart where I'm hurt? And mind understands like they did the best they could. And they probably did. Honestly, they probably did. Based on the tools they had, based on what was handed down to them from their parents and the culture they were living in, they probably did. But it's still, it isn't until we acknowledge that there was a lack and there was that every every person falls short of the glory of God, okay? That's the reality. Your parents did too. And it's when we acknowledge that there was that lack of that deep love that the Lord can come in and fill it. But as long as we keep that little bubble of protection over ourselves, like, oh, everything's fine, everything's fine. Like, I don't need to, you know, they did the best they could. It's almost like he's like, I'm trying to love you in that area, but you're like keeping me out. And when you just say, Okay, okay, God, they did the best they could, but yeah, I still have a wound. I still there's still that little girl that didn't receive all the love that she needed. Can you fill that gap? And like that, he's right in and he fills that gap. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I love it. I always tell people when we're talking about forgiveness, because it always starts like that too. It's like the the behavior starts being excused. And I say there is a difference between impact and intentions. And so when you say, when I say, so I'm saying like, um, I forgive them for not loving me the way that I deserved as a child. That's impact. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant. Okay. That's the impact that it had on my heart and my on my spirit. The intentions, now, this is where the excuses come. Oh, they did the best they could. Well, now you're trying to assume intentions. And you're you uh sometimes we even excuse behavior. Like there, there's been times walking through forgiveness with people um with abusive things that have happened that are uh it's like, wait a second, hold on, that's that's that's abuse. Um, where people would say, Well, they didn't mean to, or I put myself in that situation, or I shouldn't have done this. Or it was my fault. Right, right. So now you're trying to discern intentions. Okay, so that's not forgetting until lies.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

If you know that now we're finding little lies that are attached with some of the forgiveness, but yeah, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. So that's usually when I tell people if you're working with forgiveness, you're going to forgive the impact. And that takes the pressure off of like, I I have people sometimes like, my parents were wonderful, they were really great, or my dad was really wonderful. This hurt me, but I know he didn't mean to because he loved me. Well, hang on, we're not forgiving him for his intentions, because his intentions was probably to love you the best way he could. We're forgiving the impact. Yeah, at some point there was an impact of the words, the behaviors, the actions, and we can forgive that because that's what ruins our heart.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is just such a big thing I ran into as well. And and we it's because we're we're a culture, a society that's very strong in using our mind to understand. Not a bad thing. Um, there's a lot of value to our mind. But when it's just understanding we also have the heart that needs to heal. So the mind needs to heal, but the heart also needs to heal. And if the mind has become very strong in creating defense mechanisms around our heart, our heart never actually heals. And so it's like we have to lay that down and realize that there's an impact. There's an impact on my heart that still needs healing. And that's a very valid, and that's a big reason why a lot of people do not find the breakthrough they're looking for, is because their heart still needs to be healed, not just their mind. Their mind maybe understands, but their heart still needs healing.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Okay, so when you're walking people through forgiveness, and just correct me if it sounds wrong, but it would sound something like this. So let's say, and I I will walk through that. So um I forgive my parents for not loving me as I had hoped to be loved as a child. And I lay it all at the foot of the cross, I release them from judgment, and I wipe their slate clean. What else would you add to that?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Um, I would just say, keep going. It's like ask the Lord, God, is there anything else I need to forgive them for? And there probably is. There's probably a lot. There's when you start getting at the heart level, there's a lot of layers, and you just keep going, keep going. And he leads you very gently. And um yeah. So then you just ask the Lord, okay, God, what else I need to forgive them for?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And not gonna do that now because we would be going for like a hundred hours. I don't think we have enough time in this episode. But it is, it's also too, you know, this is something that I have reconciled um the relationship with my parents. I've reconciled it in my heart and with God, it's a season. And that's another thing, too, is to let people know, like um, when you have difficult relationships, it is a season that you're walking through. It's not always finality. Some relationships, God says this is not good for you, we're gonna sever it completely. And some, it's like we're just in a season. And so if you're walking through a season of a loved one that you care very deeply with, and that it is a struggle, because this is also kind of new in our culture, too, of like the no-contact culture is very prevalent in our society these days, at least in American society. If you're walking through a season, it's not a finality, it is a season, but you're putting it at the foot of the cross. And so forgiveness can also come up with different things. Uh, you give the example of gardens, because I remember asking you once, I'm like, I already forgave my parents for this, I already forgave my mom for this. Why is it coming up again? And you're like, Well, you're just digging another part of your garden. Weeds will sprout up in different parts of your garden, and you gotta pluck them.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah, after you're using analogy, our hearts are like a garden. That's just because it's a really common one, it's all throughout scripture. The most popular instance being the parable of the farmer sowing seeds in in different kinds of soil. That's our heart, you know. What is the what is what is the state of our heart? Is there thorns there? Is there rocks? Is it dry? Is it healthy soil? And when the seeds go in, it they can be choked out or they can produce a lot of fruit. And so when we do like guided prayer, like we've been referencing guided prayer sessions or GPSs, we're basically just asking the Lord, okay, what what thorns are in the way? Like what maybe bad roots need to be pulled out? And we're working at things on the heart level and letting him and make those changes. And it's just so cool because when you make those changes at that heart level, it starts to trickle down into the natural, into your real life. You start to see those changes begin to happen. Um, and so if our hearts are like a garden following the Lord's leading, and we were working just in this area. He he knows that there's a lot more to do, but he just takes us layer by layer, spot, you know, little place by place in this area, working it through and and taking some of these weeds out and watering the soil and planting some good seeds and like, oh, look, this area is looking a little cultivated and I'm getting some fruit in this area. And then the Lord's like, okay, don't rest too much. We're going to the next one because there's always more. And and I shouldn't say that the Lord's always in a place of rest, but he's always, he's never like, let's just hang out forever. He's like, let's keep going, let's keep going. There's so much more I want to give you. So we go to the next area. And that, and then that next area could be some of the same roots that we dealt with in the first area, but we're gaining ground. We're gaining ground in in this garden of our heart, and we're able to have more uh fruit cheese planted, more fruit growing in this area, and then we go to the next area. And there could again be the same issue that we're dealing with, but we're gaining ground the whole time. And then pretty soon you look back and you're like, oh, look at all this ground I've gained, this peace I have in my heart in this area, this fruit that I'm reaping in my life, like it's so good. And then God's like, okay, let's go to the next area. So I think it's probably the rest of our life, we're just gonna keep moving forward. But we get to reap all this fruit and just live in this cultivated, beautiful place when we let the Lord do this work in our hearts. Um, I want to bring out something about forgiveness when we're talking about it, is that forgiveness is it's not easy for a lot of reasons. And one of it is like, I just want to address, I know that there's really, really difficult things out there. And so when we talk about forgiveness, we're not saying what was done was right. Actually, the real definition of forgiveness is acceptance, is acknowledging that that wasn't right. Often, sometimes it could just be an offense. We took up the person didn't mean to hurt us, we let that go. But there are some real evil things done in this world. And I'm not making light of that. I just want people to know that. Um Tanya and I have both walked alongside people that have experienced some horrific things that I wouldn't even put on air because there's just so bad. And and and so saying, talking about forgiveness, I just want people to know it's it's not a triviality, it's not a little thing. It might take a long time. Forgiveness happens in layers. And you you but all the Lord asks us to do is the first layer today. That's it. It's just following his lead layer by layer. There might be 150 layers that's to go to get to something, and that's okay. That is 100% okay. There was somebody that I was working with, and she experienced some of those things, just really horrific things. Absolutely. We weren't going there that day, that first day. I we didn't even touch that, but there's something else that was going on, and she was really, really struggling with this relationship. And she's like, I don't even think it's possible to forgive. I just don't even think it's possible. Like, I know God can do miracles. I literally just don't even think it's possible. And I just asked her, I said, Are you willing to be willing? And that's a phrase I will often use, is just because because that's all it takes. She's like, I'm not even willing to be, but I'm willing to be willing. If God can do that, and she's like, just full disclosure, I don't think he can, but I'm willing to be willing. And so we prayed a prayer, and she's like, God, I'm willing to be willing to forgive this person. And that's all she could do the first time we met. And but she kept meeting and kept meeting. And it was just a few days actually after she prayed that prayer, that she had her first little moment of, oh my goodness, I felt the Lord's presence and he spoke to me and he told me he loved me. And I haven't heard him speak to me in in years, and it was just so good. And then, but she kept going and kept going. And eventually, like the Lord did so much healing, got to such deep layers, healed of just a deep layer of shame, and just different things were happening. Eventually, she did forgive. And um, I just heard from her recently, and it was just such a fun text, just glowing with there's joy. My life, like I'm like walking with the Lord. That relationship is just so healed and we're so close now. And it was just amazing to see that fruit of that. But the only thing that she could do at the beginning was to be willing, to be willing. And I just want to tell people that's enough. Like that is really enough. The Lord does the work, He does the rest. We put ourselves in His hands. We are willing to be willing to follow Him, and that's enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah. And you know, when people are in that posture of prayer, it's like sometimes they're going to hear the Lord through images or, you know, when you ask, like, well, what offense? Like what's at the root of this? What offense? Maybe it's a memory, maybe it's not, maybe it's just somebody's face. Like sometimes I'll just be in prayer and I'll see somebody's face. And I'm like, well, what do I need to forgive them for? And then the Lord will like show me where my heart was hurt or the impact uh that one of their actions had on me. And it's like, okay, well, you know what? I'm I'm ready to let that go. I just forgive it. I lay it at the foot of the cross. I release them from my judgment and I give them back into Jesus' hands.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. One of the, I want to touch on too, one of the when I first started this forgiveness journey, um, I think I talked about it where I was just so bound, I don't know if I did, bound by depression. And one day a friend told me, she's like, you need to start forgiving. And my first thought was, I don't really can't think of any anyone I need to forgive. Like I don't really think of an unforgiving person, but I sat down, and if I did say this in the podcast already, I'm sorry, but I sat down with this blank sheet of paper and I just said, Okay, God, do you think I need it to forgive anyone? Because the idea just went leave my head. And a name popped up. So I wrote it down, forgave them. Another name came up, and I just kept going, kept going. And an hour and a half later, the sheet was filled with names, and I was stunned because I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know with my head that I needed to forgive those people, but I followed the Lord's leading. And I had to admit, like, I felt so much better. Now the depression wasn't gone, but it had lifted a little bit enough to get through the night. And a little bit later in my journey, the Lord um, I had this conversation with another friend, and she started saying, like, hey, like talking about lies. And like, you can believe lies and you need to know the truth. And this is all new language to me. And she's like, Well, let's just do it right now on the phone. And she took an hour and a half and she's like, Ask the Lord, are there any other lies I believed? Are any other lies spoken over me? And I was like, Well, you know, this is kind of coming up. We broke agreement with that, ask out what the truth was, and just went through this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Show me what that looks like. So again, we just did the forgiveness, like what that looks like. Tell me what breaking agreement with lies looks like.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Well, I do tell people we need to do the forgiveness piece first because often people cannot hear the Lord show them the lies. It's just all clouded up. And but when we do the forgiveness and get all the layers back, is there anyone else need to forgive anyone else? And it can take a little bit of time, but it's like you're clearing the air. Then I say, okay, now ask the Lord, are there any lies I believed in this area? Like if we're dealing with shame or we're dealing with this relationship or this area you want breakthrough, are there any lies connected to this that I've been believing? The Lord usually shows them, like, um, gosh, I kind of I feel like it was my fault. I feel like it was my fault that this happened. All right, well, that's a lie. So say just say the words with me. I break agreement with that lie. God, what's the truth? Oh, it wasn't my fault. And actually, this happened and this happened. The Lord starts showing them the truth of how, you know, his perspective. That's the truth. The truth sets you free. So we get the truth from the Lord, he's the author of truth. And then we go, okay, guys, are any other lies I've believed? And we just go through that whole process. Lies are like clipping the roots, the tendrils of the roots. So if there's these ugly roots in us, it's thorns, maybe they're generational strongholds that got passed down of shame. They're stuck, roots are stuck in the ground with lots of tendrils. Whenever we clip a like break agreement with a lie, we clip a tendril of those roots. And sometimes there could be a lot of them causing them to stick in us, but we just clip them all, clip them all, go through all of them, and then we can pull that whole root out. Because what happens if you don't get to the roots? Like if you're pulling a weed from the garden and you don't get to the roots, what happens? It just keeps growing. It grows back. Yeah. So you have to get to the roots. And the roots are often lies on forgiveness and potentially a couple other things we can talk about later, but lies are the most common one. And so we just there could be 10, there could be 20. God, what other lies have I believed in this area? I break agreement with that lie. God, what's the truth? Oh, that's the truth. You clip another root, and you just keep going. And then the next step is okay, let's pull that whole root out of the ground.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah. Okay, so you just mentioned generational strongholds. And so I feel like that's kind of our next step is once you like you said, step one, you start with forgiveness. Step two, identifying lies, bringing agreement with the lies, um, finding out what the truth is from God, the God's truth, not the world's truth, not our truth, God's truth. And then the next step, step three, is going after generational strongholds.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Let's do that next episode. But I have to say one more thing. One of my favorite things, and I haven't got to yet about forgiveness. It was so eye-opening. Um, when I first started forgiving, it felt really hard. It felt like it took me days to forgive, but I was like consistent, like I will keep trying until I can forgive that person. And two or three days later, finally I'm like, okay, forgive them. And I remember asking the Lord, like, why is it so hard to forgive? And he, it's like a muscle, and you work at it, but there's also a stronghold of unforgiveness that I was battling. And I had to get to the bottom of that. And when that was taken care of, I could forgive a lot easier. But here's what I want to say about forgiveness. Forgiveness is where the tables of authority begin to turn in the spiritual realm. When we have unforgiveness in our heart, so let's say um someone betrays me and it's a good friend, and it was a real betrayal. I it hurts. It hurts. There's rejection, there's betrayal, there's all these things. And it takes a long time to forgive, and that's that's fine. But that when there's onforgiveness, that stronghold of betrayal is actually connected to me. And so anytime betrayal comes up again, it's like I'm like weaker, we, you know, more susceptible to it, more susceptible to betrayal even happening in my life. Like there's a connection there. But when I begin to forgive, I forgive that person for betraying me. Boom, something happens. I begin to walk in authority over the stronghold of betrayal. Whereas before it was able to have a measure of influence over me. And so when we're talking about breakthrough, we're actually talking about beginning to walk in the full measure of authority that Christ actually won for us on the cross. He has all authority in heaven and earth and he gives it to his disciples, but we don't always walk in it. And one, just knowing we have the authority is step one, realizing we have that authority, we can walk in the authority over darkness. But step two is when we come up against blocks and we're like, I'm walking, I believe I have the authority, but like this thing isn't moving. My prayers in this area are not, doesn't look like they're being answered right now, like nothing's happening. I I tell people, and I myself have learned to go before the Lord and say, okay, what's at the root of this? Why is this block not moving? Take me deeper, take me deeper into places of my heart to find that healing so that I can begin to walk in the full measure of authority that you do have for me. And so when we start forgiving, we are actually turning the tables of authority. We're getting we're beginning to walk in places of authority over the stronghold that's actually behind this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

So it is so powerful. I have seen incredible, miraculous things happen when people begin to forgive because they begin to walk in a place of authority over the stronghold. Our battle is not against flesh and blood. Our battle is truly not against that other person. When your parents hurt you, your battle under realizing that there it actually wasn't, your battle's not actually against them. It's against the strongholds behind what they're doing that are actually influencing what they're doing and how they're treating you and how they're treating their family and their children. It's probably against the strongholds of shame and blame and whatever else. You ask the Lord, like, what is actually my enemy here? What's actually causing damage to my family? That's what you want to start getting authority over and forgiving your parents and understanding they're not the real enemy is the first step. You start forgiving them, that stronghold begins to lose its hold over you and you begin to walk free of the stronghold. And that brings you into a place of authority and that brings you into a place of breakthrough. Amen. Amen. So that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

So our next episode, we're gonna get into strongholds, generational strongholds. Maybe we'll talk about the differences between what's a stronghold and a generational stronghold and how to identify or discern the difference and how to pull it up. Okay, so before we end, you talked about that we needed to mention how do people get a hold of us? If they want to reach out to us, if they want a GPS, if they want to know more about biblical counseling, how do they reach us?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

All right, so Anchored Biblical Counseling is the counseling center. Uh, we do biblical counseling and GPS. It's guided prayer sessions that can walk people through all these steps to really find that healing at the heart level. Um, also, I have more information on my website, intentional breakthrough.com, which has the book Intentional Breakthrough, which covers a lot of these topics as well, and links to the podcasts and all those types of things. So exciting.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah, so that's anchored biblical counseling.org and then intentional breakthrough.com. So if you want to reach either of us, you can reach us through those those uh mediums. And and if you have questions, leave comments.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

We love answering questions. Okay. Exciting. That's it. See you next time.