The Moment Surrender Actually Begins

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What do you do when the lie feels true?

In this episode of Intentional Breakthrough, Tania and Charity unpack the deeper themes from Ali Johnson’s testimony and talk about the moment many of us eventually face: realizing breakthrough may not begin with God changing everyone else, but with the prayer, “God, change me.”

They discuss real surrender, the danger of turning faith into a transaction, how expectations can become control, and how to recognize what spirit you may be partnering with in your heart. They also explore discernment, the power of Scripture, wise counsel, and a practical way to trace emotions back to the lies beneath them.

If you’ve ever known something was a lie but still felt like it was true, this conversation will help you begin identifying the thoughts, fears, and agreements that may be keeping you stuck — and return to the truth of who God says you are.

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Intentional Breakthrough Resources:

THE BOOK: Intentional Breakthrough by Charity Gurtler
https://a.co/d/08wOsvMY

Intentional breakthrough is possible when we align ourselves with God’s love and truth. You don’t have to sit and wait for your breakthrough to happen. Healing and restoration are attainable. Begin your journey today.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Some years back, I was really frustrated, really discouraged, and I was just seeing all of these changes I wanted to see happen in my family. Like I was seeing my things in my kids, dysfunction, dysfunctional things happening, um, things with me and my husband, just different friends around me, and just the world. I'm just so frustrated, just all these things like man, I just want these people to like know God more and see and see God more and change and heal. And I was just living with this frustration, and then one day I have to give the Lord credit because I wasn't even thinking this prayer. This prayer just started coming out of me out of nowhere. I said, God, change me. Like I it was the same thing. I can't change, I can't change these people, but God do whatever you want to do in me and change me. And maybe that could help some of these other things. And man, he took me up on that.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Okay, welcome back to Intentional Breakthrough. My name is Tanya Hilton. I'm here with my friend Charity Gertler, and I believe that we're at episode 11. So that's very exciting. 11 episodes. I feel like we can just get go on and on and just keep talking. So hopefully, this uh information we've been putting out there is helpful for people. And we've said it before, but if there's any comments that people want us to get into topics, leave it in the comment and then we'll read it and then and then we'll get into those topics. But our last two episodes, we interviewed Allie Johnson, and she was somebody you met at a women's ministry event, and it was really exciting. Let's dissect that interview a little bit. What was your key takeaway?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

I loved how just real and authentic the interview was. Um, just her story. And as I I say often, it's like we try and come up, oh, I need to say this to tell people about God or show this part of who he is. And all we can offer is what we have, all we can offer is our own experience. And that's how we started this podcast. Like this was my experience. Like, this is what I have to offer. It's it's real. Maybe it doesn't make sense, but this is what happened, and this is how I found the Lord. And and I loved that about what she shared.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

And I love the moment on the bathroom floor. I just, I mean, not in the moment, I'm sure it wasn't fun, but looking back, and it was just that's real life. It's real life. It's it's a moment, and I think most of us have that moment where we became completely broken. We just felt so broken and we just almost like a part of us gave up. But it was in that, in that giving up that something beautiful happened.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

You know, I had this experience. I don't know if I shared it. So if I've shared this before, tell me to stop. My aha moment, my come to Jesus moment with God when it came to my marriage. Did I ever share that with you before? I don't know. Sure. Okay, okay. And the only reason why you bring it up is because I was thinking as you were saying, like the bathroom floor moment. I'm like, did I ever have a bathroom floor? Because I came to Christ later in life, you know, where it's like every experience was like, how could I possibly live without this? Like this is so amazing. But I did have a come to Jesus moment with God, struggling over, oh my gosh, like in struggling with my marriage, you know, like um it wasn't where I wanted it to be. And I there was all these things, you know, that I I'm speaking as a wife right now. I was like, my husband needs to change this and he needs to change this and he needs to do this, and he's not doing, and da-da-da-da, and he's not doing. And then I I had a moment where I was so angry and frustrated. I got in the van and I started driving away from the house because I needed, like, I needed a breather, and I am yelling at God. Like I'm fighting with him. I'm like, you did this to me, you gave me this man. I'm like, I'm like the opposite of Adam in the garden. Like, you gave this man to me. I married him, you called me to you. Like, you're not holding up your end of the bargain. And like it was a smack in the face when I it so sometimes like God speaks to me through music. And there was a song that was playing on the radio of Thy Will Be Done. And and I'm listening to the words, but I'm like crying. I pulled over at this point because I'm crying hysterically, and I'm yelling at God, and I'm like, you're at fault here, like you're wrong. I have God on trial. And it was like, you haven't surrendered to me. And it was like, oh, like, oh, it was it was hard because like I'm sitting here telling God like how terrible he is to give me this man that needs to do all these changes. And God's like, what are you talking about? You haven't even surrendered yet. So sorry, like it makes me want to cry. I surrendered. And I said, Okay, I surrendered. I said, Okay, I said, Okay, you're right. I haven't. Sorry. I'm like, I'm gonna get emotional because it was a come to Jesus moment. Like, like it was the road to Damascus where he showed himself to me. And I surrendered and I said, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my end of the bargain. Like, this is let me start focusing on who you called me to be as a wife, what you're asking of me, and not worry so much about what he's doing and just trust that you, God, are working in him like you're working in me. And I surrendered and I laid it all at his feet and I said, All right, your will be done, not mine. And I saw this tremendous transformation, not just like it started in me, and then I saw what God was working in my husband, and it was beautiful. It still is beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

That's something that is beautiful. Thank you for sharing. That is something, though. You said it started with you. Mm-hmm. What what happened? What did you start to see change in you?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

It was, I wasn't, you know, I think like and and I deal with this a lot in counseling. When people come to me in a counseling setting, usually if they're coming to me about relational issues, it's my spouse is doing this, my co-workers are doing this, my boss is doing this. It's always like them, them, them, them. And I find that the most transformation that I can help people through is turning it back to like, well, what is God calling you to do? And what is God working in your life? And where could you change your heart? Not so much worried about, you know, God, why haven't you changed this person or changed their heart? You know, instead of pointing fingers, it's really like self-reflection. So there was this self-like God showed me the mirror. That's the only way that I can explain it. So in like our Lutheran theology, we talk about the mirror as conviction. God showed me when I'm pointing my finger at him, he was like, whoop, he slipped that mirror right in front of my face. And I was like, wow, I don't like what I see. And I and I imagine that that's like Ali's bathroom moment. You know, I don't like what I see. And I realized that the only thing I could affect in this entire world is my relationship with God and my obedience to him.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

She said something on the bathroom floor at the end of the interview, she said, she summed up what happened in that moment. She said, I realized I can't save myself. God, I need you. And it's, yeah, it was like that giving up. It's just giving up control, trying to do it her own way, and just that humility of God, I need you. What does that look like? And she talks about how in the coming days she followed him with obedience. He said, Do this, and she did that. She did what he led her to. And and just then the forgiveness that she walked through and how much God was able to do in her life, healing her life, and then bringing healing to other people through her life and through her story. And I think it's that that forgiveness of staying in that place of humility and submission to the Lord. Um, it's funny that you bring this up though, because your moment, because I had one of those some years back. I was really frustrated, really discouraged, and I was just seeing all of these changes I wanted to see happen in my family. Like I was seeing my things in my kids, dysfunction, dysfunctional things happening, um, things with me and my husband, just different friends around me and just the world. I'm just so frustrated, just all these things. Like, man, I just want these people to like know God more and see and see God more and change and heal. And I was just living with this frustration. And then one day I have to give the Lord credit because I wasn't even thinking this prayer. This prayer just started coming out of me out of nowhere. I said, God, change me. Like I it was the same thing. I can't change, I can't change these people, but God, do whatever you want to do in me and change me. And maybe that could help.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

And some of these other things. And it, he, man, he took me up on that. He took me up on that immediately. And I he just started revealing stuff in me and showing stuff that needed to be healed in me. And I just submitted to that. I said, okay, whatever you, whatever you want, like, you know, it was forgiveness or truth or finding healing for different parts of my heart. And it what was interesting though, not only was it beneficial for me going through this healing, but I started seeing it affect people around me. And that just blew my mind. I started seeing the effect. Some of the dysfunctional things I was seeing with my kids started resolving because of the healing that I had walked through. I had no idea that I was even had anything I could even do with it, you know. And then it started affecting my marriage. It started even, I was able to help different friends with different situations. And what I believe is that as the Lord brought healing to me in these deeper areas, it wasn't like he was saying, Oh, this was all your fault all along. Like, I don't think so. I think we're all in the middle of a battle. But he said, Because you've submitted to me and opened yourself up to me and are humble and submitting to me, I am able to do this work in you and bring you to a place where you're walking in a greater level of authority over a bunch of these issues that are happening. And so, as that healing, I submitted to that healing, it brought me into this place of where I was able to walk in a greater measure of authority over the different issues causing the dysfunctions and things like that. And so it was eye-opening how much we can affect the, you know, but we can't, we try and affect people around us and situations around us by using control, like, oh, I'm gonna make this happen this way. And this is the opposite of that. It is letting go of control and saying, Lord, change me. And as He changes us from the inside, we begin to walk in a place of authority, spiritual, a greater level of spiritual authority over issues, and that ends up affecting change. It's sort of it gets you to this a better result, but kind of backwards.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Right. You know, so it reminds me of I and I used to pray this. I used to pray this Psalms also. So it's Psalms 51, uh, created me a clean heart, oh Lord, and remove this heart of stone. I used to pray that for myself and I used to pray it over my husband as well, because I do believe power of prayer. We need to be praying over our spouses. So two things here, that's Psalms, and then Psalms 139 is search, search me, oh God. Well, be careful. Like you said, be careful what you ask for. So if you want to see true transformation happening at the heart level, starting with you, those are the two psalms that I would I would guide people to. So Psalms 51, Psalms 139, and man, it's powerful. Those are powerful, but you're right, it like it has to start at the heart level, it has to start with our heart. If we're coming into this, and I think this this ties into a lot with like forgiveness that we talk about too, that we talk. It's like the forgiveness has to start with us. So if we're looking at other people and we're expecting changes from them first to be happy, we're always going to be disappointed. And I always say that unmet expectations always leads to disappointment. And so here I am, you know, a spouse being like, God, where are you? Well, I I'm a I'm a believer now, I'm a Christian. Why aren't you making my life perfect? Why aren't you making my marriage perfect? These were unmet expectations and unrealistic expectations. And of course I was disappointed. And God's like, let's start in the beginning, let's work on you. And I didn't want to do it, but I did.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

But you gave up the expectations, you gave up God fixing your husband first, and you said, Okay, fix me. But as he healed you, you started to see your marriage get better.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Like, oh yeah, absolutely. I did. Okay, so here's the thing I I don't want to say I struggle with it, but a lot of this podcast is going to kind of culminate in the supernatural, the things unexplained, right? The things that we can't. There's things that have happened in my life and your life, and a lot of these people that we're going to be interviewing in their lives, that it's like we can't explain it. So the only way to explain it's to say it's supernatural. And it is, and this is like uh uh, how do I say this? This is just like a peek into my heart that I I struggle with telling people, and I should be better at the testimony, but this is a struggle that I have, telling people it's like, yes, I surrendered, and then all these changes happen. I don't want to give people expectations like if you do this, God's gonna do this for you. You know what I mean? Well, because that's not real surrender.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Real surrender means you're surrendering regardless of what happens. And like that day at the pool where you said, Jesus, if I never, if I never feel that power, that security or comfort again in that way, and all I have is you, that's enough. That was surrender. You gave it all up. And at that point, it's literally up to the it's up to the Lord what happens. We don't get to decide what happens he does, but we can trust him, knowing he's good and things are gonna work turn into things for our good, but we don't get to pick and choose.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yeah. Okay, I love that clarification because I love how you clarify that. I want to go a little further in that, like expand further on what true surrender looks like because you're right. That's where my struggle is. It's is when I in the van yelling at God, cussing him out. I'm gonna be truly truly transparent here. I was like dropping some F-bombs and everything and really frustrated with him. When I surrendered, it was the the words of my heart were no matter what happens, I'm going to work on me. No matter if there's a change in my husband, no matter if there's any outcome differences. And so I think that you're absolutely right. If people are like, okay, and I think this is my struggle too, with like uh not to get political and denominational, but prosperity gospel is very heavy on if you give money to the church, God's gonna bless you. That doesn't necessarily happen like that. You know, that that's almost like a transactional relationship or expertise.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

It goes into what spirit are you partnering with in your heart? Where what agreement is being made with in your heart? When people are giving to get, that's not the Holy Spirit, that's not humility, that's submission, that's probably like greed, manipulation, control. Like it's what is what are you agreeing with in your heart? If people are giving because they love the Lord, they feel that call to give, they just want to serve him and give to him, that's generosity and that's there is blessing in that, you know, but you can't manufacture it, you can't make it up. It's where is the agreement made in your heart? At a heart level, what are you agreeing with? That's the fruit that you're gonna see.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

So whatever you have agreed with, yeah. I have a question for you. And this is kind of going a little, little left field here, left field, but I'm gonna just lay it out there. There are some people, I had a family member in town, and they struggle with tithing. And I do believe that what's at the root of of this struggle is um fear. Okay, so that that is that is a different spirit, but I also believe that like it says in scripture that you should give generously out of the abundance of your heart. And let's clarify, we know that everything we have, God has given us. So we are just stewards of our resources. But I I do believe that if your heart is not feeling generous to give to the church, like maybe you want to give to another organization. I I I'd love to hear your opinion on this, but I feel like that's okay. I don't believe that you should feel coerced or obligated to give to a church. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 15:21

I think that everyone needs to answer that for themselves with the Lord. Um, because it's what spirit are you giving out of? Is it guilt? Is it shame? Is it whatever? Um, but you also, I can't answer everyone because it's an individual situation, because there could just be a block that that person has that they would find so much freedom and in breakthrough from if they took the time to say, okay, God, what is this block? Is this fear? Is this shame? Is this guilt? What it and like maybe a sensitivity to guilt, even though the church isn't making them feel guilty, but they just feel guilty. Like, what is this block? And taking the time to go before the Lord and saying, What's at the root of this? Heal this part of me. And as that clears up, naturally more light and discernment will come into that area on what they should do. So it is an interesting thing, though. It is the one one place in the entire Bible where God says, test me. It's with money, it's give it's giving money. It's in Malachi. He says, Test me in this, test me. That's the one time he says, Bring the tithes into the storehouses and just see if I will not bless you. That's what that's the one time he says, test him. So I don't know. That's something that that really impacted my husband at one point in in his life.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

And just how clear that was. He loves when things are just like crystal clear. That's just so clear. He's like, God said, test him. I'm gonna do it. And we it we did see some really beautiful things happen in that area of our lives. Um, the more we surrender to the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

But how do you not slip into like that prosperity gospel mindset? Because I've heard people say before too, and this is this is a I have maybe this is for another episode, but I've I've heard, oh, like it's one of those things that's like nails on a chalkboard for me. Um, blessed to be a blessing. Okay, blessed to be a blessing. Um, and so it it and I had a maybe I'm going too left field too. So stop me if I am. But I had a conversation with family members that came in town about blessings. And if we go to the Beatitudes in Matthew, where Jesus is talking about blessed is the poor in spirit, bless is the meek because they'll inherit the kingdom, blessed is the brokenhearted. He never says, like, blessed is the man sitting in a tower with riches abundantly, right? But correct me if I'm wrong. So that is one of the things that's like a little pet peeve of mine, like blessed to be a blessing. I think, wait, you don't like that phrase in general? I don't like that phrase because it almost because what happens, I uh here's like there's a little guilt, shame on there. No, I feel like it's a little bit of like, well, if I am living prosperity, pros in prosperity, it's uh because God is pleased with me. And so, and so what happens sometimes to some people is like, oh, everything's going wrong. I lost my job, my car broke down, you know, my girlfriend left me, and my dog just died. God must be mad at me, Job. So the story of Job.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um I again, I I think it's as humans, we can only see we physical things, we rely on that, what we can see and touch and taste and feel so much, but there's a whole lot more to this world that's going on, and that's the point of this podcast is there is a spiritual realm. There's a spiritual realm going on. And I believe what God is looking at is what our heart is in agreement with. And it's when I I use that word because I could make two very similar actions that look the same on the outside, but my heart is in a different, is agreeing with a different kingdom. So there's a kingdom of the Lord, kingdom of heaven, there's a kingdom of darkness. Yes. Okay. Definitely a small K on that, not a capital K. I mean, it's it's much less significant than the kingdom of heaven, but it is. It's it's a sense of a kingdom with there's orderly structure, you know, um, areas or uh degrees of influence and authority in the kingdom and his kingdom. So what am I agreeing with in my heart that is prompting those decisions? So when I make an action or decision, it's a result of a level of agreement that I have in my heart. Whatever I'm agreeing with in my heart, that's gonna determine the fruit.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

So if I put a bunch of money, I'm like, and the Lord is leading me, hey, start saving up money. This is wisdom. Put it, put aside 10%. Like he's leading me to do that. And there's like that grace on it. I'm doing it to follow the Lord, and I start saving some money out of my paycheck every month. He is, um, there's gonna be good fruit on that because I'm following him. But I could be saving a bunch of money because I'm scared and afraid, and that's my security. And I've got to have some money in the bank so I can be safe one day because I'm just so afraid and just keep saving, saving. The fruit of that is actually not gonna be as good because I'm agreeing with fear. I'm in a place of fear. So even though the actions look very similar, the fruit is gonna be different because I was partnering with a different kingdom. So it's about where you're in agreement in your heart, what what you're agreeing with in that place of your heart, causing those decisions. The actual action isn't as important as what side you're agreeing with.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Does that make sense? Okay, it absolutely 100% does. And like at the beginning of this podcast, we were going to jump into like we had we had a recap before we started, and we were going to talk about lies. And I feel like this is a perfect segue because it's exactly like, how do you recognize? So, in the same line, in the same vein of what you just said, how do you recognize what spirit you're partnering with? And in that same way, is like, how do you recognize lies from the enemy? Because I I was just working with someone yesterday, and she's like, This feels so real. She's like, I know that it's a lie, that I'm not something isn't wrong with me, but it feels so real, you know. So, how do you recognize the spirit that you're partnering with to make sure that it's the it's either the Holy Spirit or everything else, right? And it's like the Holy Spirit is what we want, that's what we want to partner with. And so, how do you recognize the schemes of the enemy, the lies and the spirit that you're partnering with? Because some for some people that's really hard. It's self-awareness.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think you grow into it, um little by little, the more that you just seek to stay connected to the Lord. And it might just when I first started out, and I that first moment I remember where I felt like, oh my goodness, I know him, he knows me. Like I just felt that connection and just so much clarity of thought. It didn't last. Um, and then I was just like, felt it felt like, I know it wasn't this way, but it felt like I'm just scrambling, crawling my way to try and find some semblance of clarity again. But really, what was going on was just the Lord was bringing me through a season of just a lot of healing and deliverance and working through a lot of difficult things before I could get those moments of clarity. Um, so you start, you just start somewhere, you just start seeking him. You start seeking him. When you don't know for sure, follow the Bible, what the Bible says absolutely is you know the default. But um discernment, I think is what we're talking about. So there is a gift of discernment and it's a gift. It's freely given. Just ask the Lord for discernment. And it's kind of like a muscle, though. The more you use it, the more it starts to grow. Um, and I always tell people stay in the word of God, stay in the Bible. Um, that just sharpens your ability to hear his word, to to receive from him. The Bible is actually food for your spirit. Like it's food for your spirit. And if you're not eating, what happens? You get kind of weak and lethargic and not really all there. Like you need food. Yeah, keep ingesting the word of God. As for the gift of discernment, it will continue to grow. Um, and then at the end of the day, you you see what the fruit was. And the fruit will will show you.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

So, one other thing, too, if you are struggling with discernment, whether it wise counsel, scripture also talks us to go and seek wise counsel. So get with a brother or sister in Christ that you can say, hey, these are the things that I'm feeling, or this is what I'm kind of struggling with. Like, what do you think it is? Um, that's also the reason why we have biblical counselors and we do uh the GPSs, is because we can partner you with people who have wise counsel that can say, Does does that sound like God's word? So for example, like this one lady that I was working with yesterday, um, something's wrong with me. All the relationships that she has, this is a lie, obviously. Like as soon as she said it, I'm like, that's a lie. You know, I could hear it right away. Um, but she's like, All my relationships, there's always something happens wrong. And I'm the common denominator, and my heart breaks. My heart breaks for her, you know, because she's like, Well, it just makes sense. I'm the common denominator, something must be wrong with me. And like immediately, I'm like, Well, that's that's the lie right there. And she's like, I know it's a lie, like I know it's a lie, but it feels so real. Oh gosh, so it kills me. So partnering with somebody and asking them, go to your pastor, go to a mentor, ministry mentor in in your church. Someone you trust. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Yes. And then that's the thing though with Lies I have to say, because for her, that was the lie. Um, and it it may, I'm not like when something's a lie for one person, it may not be a lie for everybody, because some people might need to realize, oh, there is something I need to change about myself. That's why the relationships are failing. But for her, that was the truth. Like that's when discernment is needed. There are some really obvious things that are true for everybody and not true for everybody. Those are in the Bible. Those are clear things like you are loved by God. That is true for everybody, you know, all the time in every situation. But sometimes we when we go find need to find healing in each specific situation, that's when we need the Lord to show us what's the truth in that situation specifically, you know? That's um something that I liked with their interview with Janelle. My when I initially met her, a conversation just started with just all of these things the Lord is doing and seeing him do in her life and just this life abundance she's starting to experience. It was just beautiful. And the more we were talking, I was just asking, kind of like, well, what started it all? When did that shift happen in your life? And the more we dug, we realized, oh, there was this moment. I realized I was believing a lie my whole life. And I realized what the truth was, and the lie broke, and then she was able to step into that truth. But that lie, I forget exactly what it was, but that was the lie the enemy had bound her with. It may not be the same lie for everybody, you know, in every situation. So it it really requires going to the Lord and asking, what is the truth that I need to know from me that's trapping me in these areas, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Here's one practical tip too. Like as we coming coming down to the end of this episode, um, just a practical tip that I I work with people to kind of start to identify the lie. Because what happens is the lie happens within a fraction of a second, and then immediately we start having a feeling. So usually when people come to work with you or work with me, we're dealing with the symptoms that's the feelings or the behavior that is not helping or that's not serving them anymore. And so I always tell people we have to be able to identify the light. We have to step backwards. Um, and so the pattern is typically where you have a trigger, something happens. Let's just say somebody cuts you off in the road. When somebody cuts you off, immediately you have a thought like, how dare they? They meant to cut me off. They're offending me. They don't respect me. Nobody respects me. Okay, so these thoughts happen within a fraction of a second and it leads to a feeling. So the feeling is, you know, somebody cuts you off. Um, I feel disrespected. I feel I feel anger. Yes. And anger is always a secondary emotion. So if you trace anger back, anger is because uh usually you have like intrinsic.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

It's usually a protection.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah, protection over something. Exactly. Because there's a there's a feeling that's at the root, the at the heart level that is so raw that I can't feel this feeling. It's too much, too overwhelming. So I have to get angry about it. Like offense. Offense is that secondary emotion. So if somebody cut you off and you get angry, why? Because you feel like, well, nobody respects me. I I don't deserve respect, or no one will give me respect in this world, or something like that. Um, so the trigger leads to the thought, leads to the feeling, leads to the behavior. So the behavior can be like you flick them off, or you roll down your window, you cuss them out, or you have road rage. So that's the unhealthy behavior that stems from the thought that is not necessarily true that you might need a challenge. Right. So in that situation, what's the lie? I would say that the lie is to anytime that there's an offense, the lie is usually uh an insecurity. Um, nobody respects me. Or um I'm never gonna have like people look at me and like value. I don't, I'm not valued or something along the lines. When it's offense, when you're offended, it's because you feel like somebody has violated maybe it's an insecurity that's inside that you don't even believe it.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Worth or value or insecurity, some deep level, something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Rejection, maybe yes. Uh so if you challenge that thought and you go to scripture, what does scripture say? Scripture says that you are valuable, that you are loved. And of course, like we're gonna have people mistreat us in this world, but it doesn't define our value because Christ already defined our value. And so there's a book too, and I know we're coming down to the end of our time, but there's a book that I always recommend people uh read with a Christian lens. It's called The Courage to Be Disliked. It's like when we stop worrying about what other people think about us and we start looking to what God says about us, then there's so much confidence that we have in that.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Oh, that is huge. I don't, I don't know how anyone can get through life. Like you have to go to the Lord for the truth of who you are. Whenever any situation happens or any event I'm part of anything, I just go to the Lord and say, God, what do you think? Or something happened with a relationship, like, God, what do you think of me? What's your truth? What do you say about me? And that's my lit, that's my default, that's my true north. That's the truth that I stand on. Because other people are gonna think things based on a million different reasons, but the Lord is the truth. And when we stand on that, he's a firm foundation and he there's a protection there, he loves us. Um, gonna add one more thing. We're talking about discernment. Forgiveness is so vital to growing in discernment. Forgiveness, unforgiveness is almost just like a bunch of veils and wraps and blocks and stuff that just get piled on us, and it's all we're unable to even hear from the Lord in those areas or walk in those wisdoms, receive his counsel, receive his discernment, because it's just so blocked. And so often I will actually always, I always have people walk through forgiveness, like Lord, who uh who do I need to forgive? Who do I need to forgive in this area? And just as we it's like we peel back those layers and those layers and light starts coming down and they can start to see the lie. Oh, yeah, or they can start to realize, like, oh, this spiritual thing is going on, this warfare is going on, and they just start to understand these things and start to get more clarity.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

And so I always have people start with forgiveness. That's that first step and just clears clears all that stuff out so they can start to receive from the Lord, which is receiving forgiveness.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

It is such a difficult step for people to take too. So we are at the end of our time, but we're gonna pick this up right at our next episode. So stay tuned. Our very next episode, we're gonna jump into forgiveness. Why is it so difficult for people, and then how do they take that first step?

SPEAKER_03 30:17

And why it's so valuable, because when you realize how valuable how valuable it really is, and what it actually does in the spiritual realm, it makes it a lot easier to step into. So, until next time. All right. See you then.