Can Christians Be Saved and Still Experience Oppression? | Charity's Story

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Can a Christian truly love Jesus, believe in God, and still experience spiritual oppression?

In this episode of Intentional Breakthrough, Tania Hilton sits down with Charity Gurtler as Charity shares her personal story of growing up in a Christian home, knowing the truth of Scripture, and yet feeling deeply bound by depression, anxiety, fear, and heaviness. For years, she didn’t have a framework for understanding spiritual oppression as something believers could experience — until one powerful moment with the Lord changed everything.

Charity shares how God began revealing the spiritual weight she had been carrying, what happened when she commanded it to go, and how that moment opened her eyes to the reality of spiritual warfare in the Christian life.

This conversation also explores how to discern the voice of the Holy Spirit, why Scripture must be the ultimate filter, the importance of healthy Christian community, and how to recognize the difference between the true fruit of the Spirit and counterfeit peace or temporary feelings.

If you’ve ever wondered why you can believe in God but still feel stuck, heavy, anxious, depressed, or spiritually blocked, this episode will help you begin to see spiritual freedom as one important piece of the healing journey.

For more on Intentional Breakthrough, see below!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I couldn't think straight. I couldn't feel straight. I just felt very, very depressed constantly. I couldn't break out of it. I felt very anxious. I had um regular panic attacks would happen a lot. Um I was having difficulty having any sort of positive relationship with people. And I just remember getting really frustrated. I had these thoughts. I had some moments of clarity. I'm just like, wait a second. Like, like I do believe God is real. And I look at the Bible and He promises love, joy, peace, like breakthrough, all these things. And I'm not seeing any of this in my life. And I just got kind of frustrated.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Welcome back to Intentional Breakthrough. This is Tanya Hilton. I'm here with Charity Girtler. And this is the podcast to learn everything about spiritual oppression, spiritual warfare, spiritual freedom more than anything else. And it's really finding freedom for the believer. So if you've listened to some of our other podcasts, we got into a little bit of a backstory. That's what my kids say all the time. Like, let me give you the backstory. So today we're gonna hear more about charity's backstory. And I love hearing stories. I love hearing, you know, uh everything. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna have you go way back. Like our stories are different. Let's go way back. Tell me from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

I was born in, or you know, not that far. Not not relevant. Maybe is it relevant? Like if like how did you become a believer? What was your story with like you know, being knowing about Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Like, how did that all come about? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Well, I was very privileged to be born into a Christian family. My dad was actually a pastor. Um and he was an Assemblies of God pastor, if anyone's familiar with that. And so I was at church all the time. I mean, I like that was my second home. I think actually our first house was like the parsonage, and it was uh connected to the same parking lot as the church. So I grew up there. I was there multiple times a week. I did all of the things, you know, all of the programs and the camps and everything. So I'm really grateful for that. I got a lot of really good truth, um, really good knowledge from growing up in that environment and got a lot of Bible verses memorized and all those things. But I guess my story as it relates to spiritual oppression um really starts w uh a bit later. So I I growing up was okay. I mean, when you're a kid, I don't feel like you really notice a lot of things, like if there's dysfunction or this or that, you know, you just kind of grow up. You're a kid. Um, but I got to the certain point where I was very, very bound, is the language I have for it now. But in that moment, I really felt like I couldn't think straight, I couldn't feel straight, I just felt very, very depressed constantly. I couldn't break out of it. I felt very anxious. I had um regular panic attacks, would happen a lot. Um, I was having difficulty having any sort of positive relationship with people. And I just remember getting really frustrated. I had these thoughts. I had some moments of clarity. I'm just like, wait a second, like, like I do believe God is real. And I look at the Bible and He promises love, joy, peace, like breakthrough, all these things. And I'm not seeing any of this in my life. And I just got kind of frustrated. So how old are you?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Like when you started experiencing this oppression, how old were you?

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Well, the some of the really heavy oppression would be my 20s, is when I think what it relates more to what we're talking about. And so um, I started becoming aware of it just being a lot of heavy oppression earlier than that, but um it really kind of came to a head in my 20s. And I just got to this point where I think I just kind of gave up because I didn't really know what to do. Like I, you know, would read the Bible, I would pray, I would do, I would do all these things, and then I knew I had that truth of God in me, but it wasn't um, I wasn't translating into breakthrough in my life. Like I was coming up against something that wasn't budging, is what it started to feel like. And so I didn't actually have a grid for um demonic oppression. You know, with all of my wonderful training and teaching that I had, I actually didn't have that grid. So I wasn't really taught about it. I wasn't really taught that that was anything Christians could even deal with and come up against. Um, and so there was just this moment I remember um I was just crying out to God because I knew where to go at least. I at least knew where to turn. So I was in my 20s and I had basically at this point my whole life was shut down, my social life, everything. I just couldn't even handle anything. I was just so oppressed. And I was in my room, door closed all day long. I think it was a Saturday, and I just stayed there for hours and I put worship music on, and I was just trying to find something. I knew God was real, and I was trying to find something. I was like, God, where are you? Like, is there anything? Like I just had this heavy, heavy, heavy, dark, super oppressive oppressive um just thoughts, feelings, weight. I couldn't shake it off. And it was just, it felt awful. It just felt so awful. And um I remember being on my knees in my room, and this worship music was playing, and I was just trying to find any sense of feeling anything good, like just even a moment of relief from this thing. And I started to become aware. And it's hard to describe exactly how I became aware. Like I'm like, it's in my mind's eye. I guess in my mind's eye, I just started to become aware of like this dark thing, like a dark cloud or something, like just some sort of like dark thing. It was like my eyes were closed, and I just was kind of like aware, like this darkness. And then I hear this little voice off to the side that just said, tell it to go. Wow. And I was just like, Wow, that's interesting. So I'm like, okay, got nothing to lose. I'm just gonna do it. And I just said, Okay, just go, just go. This thing, just go. And it left. Wow. And it left. And wow, I noticed something significant shifted. Like I was like, oh my gosh, I can take a breath. Like I can breathe, I can think, like, oh, I have rational thoughts in my head. Um, like I I could even start thinking about what I'm gonna have for dinner tonight. Like it just something shifted and something broke that was significant.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Um and then it was before, like, did you ever have experiences before this time? Because again, you grew up Christian, you grew up in the Christian church, church all the time. Was there was spiritual oppression or spiritual warfare ever talked about growing up?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

It was a little bit, but it was always in relation to as far as I understood, somebody that wasn't saved, somebody that wasn't a Christian. Um, so that was my my knowledge up to that point. I'd never really been taught that Christians could be oppressed, that Christians could struggle with with demonic warfare.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

So let me ask you, as a Christian, um, so you're a Christian, you were baptized, saved, like you knew you were saved, you knew you believed in God. And so you're being tormented, because that's what it's happening. You're being tormented with this heaviness. I wrote that down because that's big. Did did it make you doubt your salvation?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

No, no, I knew I knew I was I knew I was saved, and I had even um even before that, so before that, I had already experienced some little breakthroughs with the Lord, where I did, I just my faith had already started to grow. You know, you have that when when kids are raised in the church and raised in a Christian family, you have that moment where your faith becomes your own. And so I had already walked through that, and I had walked through this part where my faith had become my own, and I started to like rely on the Lord. I started to build develop a personal relationship with him. So I already had that history with the Lord, but so there was like these little breakthroughs that were happening, and like I was I was all in. And so I really did I have to say, like, so I guess the very first breakthroughs had already happened, if that makes sense. But the one where we're talking about when we're getting into demonic um warfare and oppression and freedom from oppression, I feel like this is that moment for me where when this happened, and then that same day um when that thing left, there was a couple more guys like, okay, now tell this one to go, now tell this one to go. And I did, and then and stuff left and just lifted. It was like like these heavy loads just lifted and lifted, and like the sunshine was there, you know, the blocks were gone, like the sunshine was there. And I just it was such a big difference. And I was a little bit stunned. I'm like, what just happened? Like, I don't have language for what just happened. And I remember just like going through my life the next few days, thinking it through, thinking it through. And I I came to the reality in my own head. No one said anything. I didn't even talk to about this experience to anybody else. I came to this reality, I just said, I think Christians can struggle with demons. Like, I didn't know that. I thought that you got saved and that was it. And and demonic warfare nut didn't touch you. But I just I realized I think Christians can be oppressed with demons. I didn't know that. Now I do, and now I'm convinced. And I had not heard that from anyone else up to that point. Like I had not heard that teaching. Now it's a lot more common, it's a lot more accepted, and people talk about it. But that was my first aha moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Okay. I'm curious because you were like, like God revealed to you, let this one go, let this one go. What what was it was tell it to go, like authority? Okay, tell it to go. But what what did he say? Tell it to go. Like, can you remember?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

I believe I can't I I know one was depression. One was depression. Um and the I I know that was the big one, the first one. And then there's a couple other ones. I'm not entirely sure. I think like somewhere in the realm of fear, anxiety, that type of thing were the other the other ones. So I don't have I don't know. I guess I could ask him and see what he shows me, but it's beautiful. I love to have it was just darkness, and I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah. But he's very clear and and I know we're gonna get more into like the spiritual oppression, you know, conversations, but it, but it's like depression and fear and anxiety, those are I always tell people because I have sometimes people come into counseling and they're like, My depression, my anxiety. I'm like, no, no, no, that's not yours. Tell it to go, you know, don't own it. So it's like depression go, anxiety go. Oh my goodness. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

I think there's um there's healing is multifaceted. That's what I've just discovered. So like healing depression is multifaceted. There is a spiritual um healing of depression that's needed. There's a physical healing of depression that's needed. There's the counseling, emotional, understanding, healing of depression, you know. So there it is multifaceted, but yeah, the spiritual component is a part of healing that's needed for a lot of these things. And I think that's the what our heart is with this podcast is like we're not saying spiritual warfare is the reason for everything or the answer for everything. No, but it's a piece of the puzzle. It is a piece of the Christian walk that isn't really explored or talked about or explained or equipped. Like people aren't equipped really well equipped in this area. And we want to give that piece of the puzzle. So yeah, I just want to say people struggling with depression, like, man, I have been there and it has been really tough. And this was a piece of the puzzle. It wasn't the whole thing, but it was a part of it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Okay. So your moment when you're processing this, because again, it's like it's a supernatural experience that it's hard to explain in like our natural logic realm. You're processing this and you're like, huh. I think Christians can actually, you know, be oppressed by demons. What's next? What happened next?

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Um I think I just wanted more. I wanted more healing because like I, like I said, I'm so grateful for all I did have in my life, but I was starting to become aware of the dysfunction I also had in my life. And I remember at one point thinking, like, this, I'm gonna struggle with this my whole these types of things my whole life. I'm always gonna struggle with, you know, acquaintance or I whatever. Yeah, I'm always gonna struggle with things. And like I started to realize that I could get real healing, like real healing. It didn't just help. It wasn't just a band-aid. I think up until that point, I just had band-aids, but I was starting to get real, actual healing where there were wounds that were there that were no longer there after they got healed. Like it was just blowing my mind. And I I started noticing. This is something I love to notice in myself and others. I started noticing how it played out into my actual day-to-day life. Like my life was transforming and changing, my experience with others, my confidence, my emotional state, my ability to just have joy, to have fun, to have ideas, create and maintain positive relationships, like new ideas would come to me. Like it just so much of my life started changing because of the freedom that I had found. And it was just fine. So I wanted more. And I, and I was very aware I needed more. So there was a lot more. So, like, you, there's just layers and layers and layers of healing God had to bring me through. And He has so faithfully, and I'm sure there's many more, but it was just layers. I was like, okay, God, what's next? Like I want to be free of this. Like, I want freedom here. I wanna, I wanna be all that you want me to be, like all that you created me to be. I don't want to be held back by any of the schemes or ties of the enemy. Cause like I started realizing how many were there woven in my life, in my generational line, my family life. Like, I want all of them to be healed and exposed so I can live fully free the way that you want me to be, the way that you intended me to be. And so that became my prayer. And so I just I've been running hardcore after healing ever since. And that's yeah, 22 years.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

What was your so um because I'm curious because uh again, I had somebody, my my good friend Michelle, that really exposed me to a lot of the spiritual warfare. She d helped me learn and walked alongside me for many years. This is something where in your denomination then they didn't talk a lot about spiritual warfare. Uh they didn't talk like this with like being oppressed by demons. So, where did you go? Did you have somebody to walk with you? How did you research? How did you get how did you because I know there's a piece of it, and I felt it too. There's a piece that we feel in our heart that we know it's the Holy Spirit and it's freedom. But how do we make it more concrete, maybe? How did you do it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Um, at that point, I didn't, I don't feel like there's any one person or or something, you know, one thing that that I went to or that um, yeah, I can't think of anything like that. There's a lot of little bits and pieces here and there. But that whole concept of Christians can be oppressed by demons, like I feel like I held on to that for years before I found anyone that would agree with me. Like I just felt like I was like, I I believe this happened, but like it just wasn't in the dialogue, it wasn't talked about, and it wasn't um, I don't know, and maybe I was in the wrong, wrong camps. I don't know what it was, but I I really feel like the Holy Spirit led me through all those years. And there were different things I got from different places and people that he he used, but I just couldn't pinpoint one. But I really felt like my focus was just to be led by him and just to seek his presence. And like I I was definitely I felt like very clumsy back then, like, but I'm just was very desperate every day. It was like, Holy Spirit, show me where you are. Like, Jesus, where are you? Who are you? Like, show me today what I'm supposed to do. And I just constantly clung to that, to, to him, to who he was. I don't know if his presence is the best marker of who he is, but just I started to recognize that when I was with him and he was speaking to me, the fruit that would come from that and and his presence and his joy over me. And when I what he would speak his words over me of identity and who I was, and I would just drink that in, and I just started to recognize that. And it became so clear whenever I wasn't in that. And so who Jesus is and the words that he speaks to me and the words of life, I don't know, it's kind of like I I started to recognize what was counterfeit. And so I always just like clung to that and I always just followed him and I always just followed his voice and where he's leading me, and not perfectly, but just earnestly and sincerely the best that I could. And so I feel like that's kind of how I led. And so along the way, there has been um good teachings and and different things that I've I've pulled and and used. So what's interesting though is I had no idea of one that you could be bound as a Christian, like you could be oppressed, I should say, because we do always like to differentiate possession versus oppression. Possession is like you're you're totally controlled by doing that. That wasn't the case. Like I was still going through my life. I could still choose and decide things. I was just so heavily oppressed, right? Yeah. Um, so much so that when I told that thing to go, it felt like it left me. You know, I wasn't like controlling me, but it did feel like it left me, you know. And so I I just because I have a question for you.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

So uh you said something that I hear so many times too. Uh you were like, I learned to listen to the voice of the spirit versus, you know, I learned to be able to discern what what I was hearing. And I get that so many that's something I walked through myself where I'm like, is this a spirit or is this not? And I always relate it to like a spiritual muscle. The more you use it, like the stronger it's gonna get. Right. But what was your markers? Because people sometimes say, I don't know if this is a spirit or is this my own self-wantingness or this is from the enemy. Yeah what are your so let me let me preface it with this. Um, because I have heard this individual had once said, the spirit is telling me to leave my husband and marry my my mailman. I mean, this is a true story, like leave my husband and and go date my this mailman. How do you know? How did you know? Like what was the the filters you used to say, this is a spirit and this is not?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Okay, that is an excellent question. Um, because yeah, that's that's not great advice to give a believer that has not learned about discernment, has not, you know, um had some good Bible teaching. So the reason I think I was able to do that was because of I had so much good Bible teaching and I had really been taught that the word is the is the word of the Lord, like the Bible is the word of the Lord, and that's your litmus test, always is. And so if you think you're hearing for something from the Lord and it doesn't line up with scripture, you toss it out. That's not the Lord. Okay. So when you do start exploring that route of like, you know, holy, you know, Holy Spirit, are you speaking to me? Jesus, are you speaking to me? Like, what are you saying? You can easily be deceived. Like you really can be. And so I think being aware that you can easily be deceived is is very healthy. And realizing that you got to go to the word for everything. The word has to, you have to know the word well, be in the word daily. That's something that I really hold to. Like I'm in the word every day. I really think that's really valuable for a believer. I love the word of God. Like I love the Bible. I love reading it. I love all the parts of it. It brings all different flavors, you know, the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Gospels. Like, I love the Word of the Lord. And I think that really helps to grow in discernment. And you got you start so you start, everyone starts somewhere and they grow in it. And so just realizing that like the the Lord wasn't asking me to do something crazy in the beginning of my walk with him. Like, like you build on that, like to get to that level of faith. Like it's just little baby steps, you know, just following him throughout the day, just believing like, you know, that what he thinks of me really is more valuable than more important than what anyone else says over me, and just starting to find my identity in Christ. You build on those things. And so, um, yeah, so it always lines up with with the word of the Lord. And that's really important. You gotta be in the word. And I think being in a healthy body of believers is really, really important too. I always was. And so I was always part of a a church, a community, a small group like um that was helping me grow and helping, you know, shape me and that I could trust and and go to for help. And um, I think that's really important for spiritual growth too. So we got the word, we got being in a healthy community that relies on the word of the Lord and or the word of God, the Bible relies on the Bible. And then third, um, you look at the fruit, you look at the fruit too. If you really want to know is this is this God or not, um, you look at the fruit, and the fruit can be counterfeited for a time, but not for long. Tell me the Lord. The enemy loves it loves to give you like a counterfeit piece. Like, oh, I feel peaceful, you know, this must be God. And you can you start to recognize the the more that you grow into some right and walk with the Lord, you can recognize that pretty quickly. Like, okay, that's not peace. But I can understand how that that can happen. And you just feel peace for a while, but it's more of like a mental it's in your head. It's not really, really peace. Because real, the real truth peace of God that transcends all understanding, the peace that's the fruit of the Holy Spirit is powerful. Like it is more powerful than anything else. And it starts to literally like affect your circumstances in your life because the peace of God is so powerful. And so starting to recognize the real, you know, fruit of the Holy Spirit versus counterfeit. And then the counterfeit stuff, it doesn't last for long. Like it can last for a little bit, like, oh, I have joy, it must be the Holy Spirit. Like, well, now, you know, let's see that play out over time. You could have joy because you're making the wrong decision, or you could be feeling good because you're making the wrong decision, but that's not gonna translate into joy that lasts. So yeah, I guess it'd be the yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

I I love that I I would love to get more into this counterfeit because um I always say like my my discernment is, you know, is this is this the fruit of the spirit? Like that's a that's a big one. Like, do you feel the peace that surpasses all understanding? The peace, joy, goodness, gladness, happiness um from the spirit. But this counterfeit one, this is interesting because I'm trying to think of this as a real life situation. So this individual that's like the spirit wants me to leave my husband and and marry the mailman, then what you're saying is this counterfeit spirit looks like she's happy at birth and she's like, Yes, this is great because look, I'm so happy, you know. Yeah, but that's the flesh. That's the flesh, the flesh makes us happy at a time too, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So that's yeah, the fruit of the spirit is not just feelings. Um, it often leads to feelings. Like I've probably said this to you before, but one of my favorite phrases about feelings are they make a terrible engine, but a great caboose. So they should not be what drives the train and decides where you go. But when you make the right decisions with the Lord and you're choosing wisdom and being led by by the Word of God, by the Bible, they follow after behind as like very pleasant feelings, you know, because you are making the right decisions and life tends to be a little bit better that way. But um yeah, so so feelings in them in them in a in and of themselves are not good markers of, you know, if it's if it's God or not, because the enemy, like you, like you said, um, when you in the last episode, you when you got free of this thing from the enemy, you actually kind of missed it because there were some kind of good feelings attached, right? There were some things that made you feel better that you then lost. So yeah, feelings in of themselves are not. With that situation, I mean that's not that's not the Bible. God Not ask us to divorce our spouses or love adultery. Like super egregious, like something going on. Right. Yeah. Adultery is never, never God. Ever. So like that is very clear. So that that's kind of debunked.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

I love these three markers that you touched on. So be in the word daily, be in God's word in scripture daily, a community of believers. I cannot say this enough. Like God did not create us to be alone. Like He when Adam was alone, he's like, this isn't good. Let's let's create a helper. So we're created to be in community together and then looking at the fruit of the spirit. This is such a good like window to start with that this is how you use discernment. You have to you have several markers. I love that. That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

So yeah. So like the the lady that you're talking about, who the Lord asks, or she she believes the spirit told her to leave her husband. So obviously that's not the word of God that does not line up debunked. But let's say she goes through with that and feels really good at first, like, oh, it must be God. I'm feeling pretty good. I'm like, oh, I have my confidence back, my joys back, whatever, whatever she says. It's what what you're really looking at to see what the fruit of the spirit is, is okay, how are the other relationships in your life going? How is your walk with the Lord? How, how is that thriving? How is um your faith going? How is, you know, and that that's those are the beginning signs, but then they'll start translating to bigger and bigger problems and issues that you'll start to see down the road if you are disconnected from the vine. So that's what this is about. Is are you connect staying connected to the Lord, to the Holy Spirit? Is his life flowing into you? Um, and is that what you're feeding off of it and what you're being filled with? And there's fruit from that. And if you're not, if you're if something, and not saying that you're like cut off from the family tree, that's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying if like there is some sin that's in the way and you're starting to listen to a spirit that's not the Holy Spirit and starting to go down a different path, you're not gonna be receiving all of that from the Lord. You're gonna be receiving whatever that spirit has. And so what is that gonna start looking like in your life? And it it can take some time to play out, unfortunately. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Okay, so this, I think you have set the stage perfectly for our next episode because what I would love to jump into in our next episode is what oppression looks like in real life, what it what it actually looks like. Because I know uh the some of the uh examples that you shared today, oppression look different for from you to me. And then even once we realize we're being oppressed and we start, you know, removing this oppression, getting spiritual freedom, there's still layers of oppression. Like, how do you know? Because there's times that you and I have been on conversation together and I've said something, I don't I don't even know. Like, I'm having a hard time, you know, at work or I'm having a hard time with this relationship. And you're like, let's get to the Lord and find out what's at the root of that. Like that's spiritual oppression. Let's let's get rid of it. And I wouldn't have even thought about it, where I'm like, oh, I thought that's just everyday life. Like I'm gonna have conflict in my relationships. So I'd love to jump into a deeper conversation on what oppression looks like with with real examples.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah. And you know what? I think I'd also I'm gonna touch on too. Um, it took me a years to realize this. But when I had that moment of freedom, um, when I was in, you know, told that thing to go and it left, that was actually not that was actually a result of a journey that he had been taking me on that I didn't even put the pieces together until years later. Of different steps that he walked me through the preceding six to nine months of taking care of different things. And all of that led to this moment when I could stand in authority against this thing, tell it to go and it left. So that gets into more of what we really do want to talk about in the in this podcast is how do you navigate this? How do you navigate spiritual warfare and oppression as a believer? How do you walk through it? What are those practical steps you can take?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

So, yeah, until next time. Okay, that sounds great. Well, here we are, the next episode of uh Intentional Breakthrough. Thank you again, Charity, for your story, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

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